Dear Glenn Beck and Matt Walsh,
It’s not every day that either of you writes or says something that causes me to want to discuss the relationship.
For reference, see Matt Walsh’s words here. For Glenn Beck’s words, watch the episode of his radio program that took place on 3/31/2016 during the 1st hour.
At issue was Trump’s statement that women who have an abortion, when abortion is illegal, should have some kind of punishment.
This was one of the few times I’ve found myself nodding in agreement with anything Trump says, not that I actually thought Trump believed what he was saying. Let me be clear: I’m not defending Trump. I don’t support Trump for President. I think he’d rule as a fascist if elected. I believe he’d bring about America’s bankruptcy, a civil war, and WWIII. So, no, I don’t support Trump in the slightest. But I absolutely agree 100% with what he said when he said that women, when abortion is illegal, ought to have a legal consequence.
Glenn and Matt, if I understood you both correctly (and correct me if I’m wrong), you both thought the idea was ludicrous. You think the one who performs the abortion ought to be punished, which I agree is the correct course of action. But why should the woman who chose to butcher their own baby not receive a legal consequence as well?
Let’s take it out of the womb for a moment. What if this was a mother who was poor and unable to care for her 4-year-old child? What if that mother paid a desperate addict $100 to kill the 4-year-old? Would we not hold the mother responsible? OF COURSE WE WOULD! We would hold both the mother and the person the mother hired responsible. What makes abortion different?
At first I imagined that you do not believe the fetus is a living and individual human being. The problem with that thought is that I know you both better than that. Matt, you have some of the most staunch pro-life rhetoric I’ve ever witnessed. And Glenn, you have never given me reason to believe you’re okay with butchering babies.
Are you thinking this is a choice of one or the other. It’s not automatically a choice of whether the abortionist or the mother ought to be held responsible. That’s a false choice. In reality, both are responsible and both ought to be held accountable for the act of slaughtering an innocent human being.
Should the circumstances of the mother be considered? Of course! But that doesn’t mean we excuse all mothers and only hold abortionists responsible.
I’m baffled. I don’t understand the line of thinking. For me, this has never been just about what is effective at winning the abortion argument. Rather, it has been about ending elective or convenience abortion, period, and restoring true justice to America by holding people who butcher innocent babies responsible. And holding both the abortionist and the mother responsible would surely be more effective at utterly ending the plague of abortion than holding only the abortionist responsible.
But, beyond that, the sincerity of all of your other pro-life arguments is suspect after a statement like one you both gave. Is the baby real or not? Is the baby alive or not? Is the baby innocent or not? Does the baby have a right to live or not? If the answer to each of these questions is yes, then abortion is evil, unconstitutional, unconscionable, and all parties associated with carrying it out ought to be held responsible. Period. End of discussion.
I don’t know what the consequence should be. I’m not calling for executions. We put mothers who kill their born children in prison. Why does the fact that the baby lives in the uterus change the morality and legal consequence of the entire thing? Answer: it doesn’t. If it’s wrong for a mother to do when the baby is age 1, it’s wrong for the mother to do at 20 weeks after conception. And if the mother is held responsible for killing her child when the child is 1, then the mother ought to be held responsible for killing her child when the child is at 20 weeks after conception.
I consider both of you to be a friend. I’ve listened to you, Glenn, for years and years and was on the phone with you just a few weeks ago during a conference call for Ted Cruz and Mike Lee. I was deeply impressed. I’ve followed your blog, Matt, for a long time now and have consistently been blown away (in a good way) at what you’ve had to say. I’ve never met either of you face to face, but anyone who stands for the principles you stand for are a friend to me. That’s why I’m so stunned. I don’t understand it.
I am open to hearing your reasoning. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I want to understand. It just seems like a major contradiction to me. Am I just insane? Am I the only one who thinks this way? Are you guys avoiding saying woman who abort their baby should be held responsible because it’s not popular to say? That wouldn’t make sense either. Since when did either of you care about saying what’s popular?
So, please, take this as a friendly question. If you have the time to answer, please do. I want to understand.
In case Matt’s statement ever goes offline, here is an exact copy:
“A quick note about the latest Trumproversy (Trump-related controversy) because many readers have asked me about it.
Trump was on MSNBC earlier today and the subject of abortion came up. It’s bad news when any subject comes up around Trump because he’s a hollow-skulled nincompoop who doesn’t know anything, believe anything, or care about anything other than his own pomp and publicity. But it’s especially bad news when abortion comes up around him, because he’s a pro-abortion Planned Parenthood apologist vaguely pretending to be pro-life, and his random, semi-coherent pronouncements on the issue — the most crucial issue facing civilized humanity, by the way — will immediately be painted as representative of the movement as a whole. A movement of which Trump is not a part, has never been a part, and has never done anything in his life to help or advance.
It went about as badly as you’d expect. And because this is Trump we’re talking about, it managed at the very end to sink even lower than your lowest expectations. At first, when asked whether the government should criminalize abortion, Trump repeated feminist talking points by mentioning back-alley abortions. Actually, when asked specifically how to ban abortion, which is a question any truly pro-life politician should be able to answer half asleep or in a morphine-induced coma, Trump said this:
“Uh, yeah, well you know, you’ll… go back… to a position.. like, they had… where people will… perhaps go to… illegal places, but you have to ban it.”
This is a man who has not the slightest clue what he’s talking about, as usual.
The anchor was then able to easily back Trump into a corner, forcing Trump to endorse “punishments” for post-abortive women. Within three hours, he changed his position, saying he does not endorse punishments for women, and also saying that his position, which he just changed a moment ago, has not changed. Donald Trump emits lies like flatulent cows emit methane. He lies about everything, constantly, all the time.
But during the 160 minute window when Trump was “in favor” of punishing women who get abortions, his fans on social media, most of whom have spent months insisting that abortion isn’t an important issue because immigration is the only issue in the whole universe, suddenly decided they and Trump were not only extremely anti-abortion, but more anti-abortion than every pro-lifer criticizing Trump for his comments.
Naturally, when Trump changed his mind, all of his supporters reverted back to not caring about abortion again. These people are, for the most part, empty vessels just waiting to be filled with whatever arbitrary idea Donald Trump stammered about today. They abandon the idea as soon as Trump does, and the process repeats the next day.
This is one of the many, many, many reasons why Trump will be a terrible nominee. He cannot coherently defend or articulate any conservative position because he doesn’t understand or care about any of it. On abortion, he is easily the most incompetent pro-life spokesman the GOP have ever pulled out of the swamp, and that is saying quite a lot.
As far as the “issue” of punishing women who get abortions: it’s not an issue. Trump only said it because he’s a bumbling, ridiculous con artist who says whatever he thinks a conservative might say in that situation, and then promptly amends or denies what he just said as soon as we conservatives inform him, no, that’s not what we’d say.
I’ve known a lot of very dedicated pro-lifers in my day, and I’ve never heard a single one of them seriously advocate punishments for post-abortive women. I’m not saying they don’t exist, but in my experience, the pro-lifers actually out there working for the cause, investing their time and resources in it, showing up at the clinics and so on, understand that we will not win the fight by talking about punishments for the women.
Here’s what I’d do if it were up to me: I’d lock every doctor and Planned Parenthood official in prison on capital murder charges. For the women, I would do what the pro-life movement is already doing and has been doing for decades: minister to them, counsel them, offer them healing and mercy.
It is the abortion industry that discards women and treats them like filth once it gets what it wants from them. Pro-lifers, on the other hand, reach out in love and compassion. Pro-lifers have always been the compassionate ones in this debate. Pro-lifers have always been the ones who care about women. And that fact has been an enormously effective weapon in our favor. An incalculable number of women have come to the cause, perhaps after an abortion or after considering it, when they see that pro-lifers care about them and care about babies, while the clinics care only about their bottom line. Loving the post-abortive women saves lives. It just does. It saves lives. Period. Talking about putting them in jail does not. It’s that simple.
Women are victims of abortion, too. Yes, they choose it, but they are still being physically, emotionally, and spiritually damaged by it. The clinics prey on the women. The clinics feed on a woman’s fear and ignorance. It’s important that we understand this. Not to excuse it — come on, you know me, I’m the last person to excuse abortion — but to fully put into perspective just how evil and manipulative is the abortion industry. Let them feel the wrath of justice. They are the dealers and the pimps in this scenario. They need to be punished. The women have already punished themselves, whether they know it or not. All that we can do for them is love them. That’s how we protect life and win souls.
If Trump were a real pro-lifer, he’d know that.”